Discussion Forum | A Way with Words

tatiana.larina on That's What "Friend" is For? (minicast)

Fri, 17 Jul 2009 16:33:37 -0500

I had a similar feeling about English use of "friend" as a non-native speaker. Polish-English dictionaries will tell you that "friend" is in Polish "przyjaciel", and "znajomy" is "acquaintance". But in fact the word "przyjaciel" is used in Polish much more discriminately, for the relationships like Achilles and Patrocles (albeit without homosexual undertones) or Thelma and Louise. Eva Hoffman in her "Lost in Translation" put it much more better than I ever could (and she refers to the era long before the advent of the Internet "friends"):

We like each other quite well, though I'm not sure that what is between us is "friendship" - a word which in Polish has connotations of strong loyalty and attachment bordering on love. At first, I try to preserve the distinction between "friends" and "acquaintances" scrupulously, because it feels like a small lie to say "friend" when you don't really mean it, but after a while, I give it up. "Friend", in English, is such a good-natured, easygoing sort of term, covering all kinds of territory, and "acquaintance" is something an uptight, snobbish kind of person might say. My parents, however, never divest themselves of the habit, and with an admirable resistance to linguistic looseness, continue to call most people they know "my acquaintance" - or, as they put it early on, "mine acquaintance". As the word is used here, Penny is certainly a friend...

Glenn on A Virtual Game to Teach Children Languages

Fri, 17 Jul 2009 15:11:56 -0500

HEY!

Glenn on L-U-R-V-E, Love (full episode)

Fri, 17 Jul 2009 15:11:17 -0500

I might say you LURVE words.

Kaa on L-U-R-V-E, Love (full episode)

Fri, 17 Jul 2009 13:01:52 -0500

samaphore said:

Kaa: Thank you for introducing the lovely word “anthimeria” into the discussion!

Yes, Kaa, thank you. But why don’t any of my dictionaries have this fine word? I couldn’t find it even in my online dictionaries. I found it on Wiki, of all places! Ya-No!

Try onelook.com. It shows up in 8 dictionaries, there, one of which is the Luciferous Logolepsy, which is a great source for obscure words. Which I collect. Like tmesis, apophthegm, and perenidnation. I love words....

samaphore on L-U-R-V-E, Love (full episode)

Fri, 17 Jul 2009 12:49:29 -0500

Kaa: Thank you for introducing the lovely word “anthimeria” into the discussion! Yes, Kaa, thank you. But why don't any of my dictionaries have this fine word? I couldn't find it even in my online dictionaries. I found it on Wiki, of all places! Ya-No!

samaphore on A Virtual Game to Teach Children Languages

Fri, 17 Jul 2009 12:39:00 -0500

the mere act of entering their store was enough to tip them off — you could catch the brunt of some very unhelpful attitude. Funny! I sometimes get that when I visit New York, foreigner that I am to the Big Apple.

martha on L-U-R-V-E, Love (full episode)

Fri, 17 Jul 2009 11:24:11 -0500

Welcome, wwkudu. I've only read about the "Ya-no" in South Africa, so it's nice to have it confirmed. >>> where the window had two linked sections such that raising the bottom section lowered the top section and in face opened the window.<< Seems plausible, although I'd love to know more about possibilities from other languages.

martha on L-U-R-V-E, Love (full episode)

Fri, 17 Jul 2009 11:14:41 -0500

Kaa: Thank you for introducing the lovely word "anthimeria" into the discussion!

Glenn on A Virtual Game to Teach Children Languages

Thu, 16 Jul 2009 14:23:26 -0500

I lived in France for a year. This was one of my experiences mentioned above. Everywhere in France the people were constructive and helpful with my language acquisition and pronunciation. It didn’t take many months (along with a haircut and a wardrobe change) before I could pass as French, at least in simple conversations. However, in Paris, as soon as a clerk detected you were a tourist — and in many cases the mere act of entering their store was enough to tip them off — you could catch the brunt of some very unhelpful attitude. I travelled all around France, and never experienced that problem in any other part of the country. As for Middlebury Summer Language School, your language community does include many students, but includes also the native-speaker instuctors, who are present at all meals and activities. They stay in the dormatories with the students and are actively involved in every aspect of daily life. It is (or at least was till virtual immersion gaming) the next best thing to being there.

samaphore on A Virtual Game to Teach Children Languages

Thu, 16 Jul 2009 14:20:12 -0500

“Non, non, non!” He then corrected her pronunciation and answered her when she got it right to his satisfaction. That Frenchman would certainly make an interesting pillow talk instructor. "Non, non, non, you can't have that until you say it right!"

samaphore on The "letter"-word

Thu, 16 Jul 2009 14:15:55 -0500

I'm sorry to hear that; you must be a fan!

samaphore on Who is right? Re: "Go"

Thu, 16 Jul 2009 14:13:11 -0500

It sounds like George Will and Jiang's father would get along fine!

Grant Barrett on A Virtual Game to Teach Children Languages

Thu, 16 Jul 2009 14:12:45 -0500

Kaa, I always took the corrections of my French as free lessons. It kept me from getting aggravated at the way I couldn't get anything done without my every misconjugated subjunctive being corrected and explained.

Kaa on A Virtual Game to Teach Children Languages

Thu, 16 Jul 2009 14:05:57 -0500

Even if you have the opportunity to speak it with others, you need native speakers, not other students. I'm from Alabama and took two years of French during high school. I'm fairly certain that, even though our teacher had no heavy southern accent, his French was accented, and what we learned from him became even further accented. There were only three of us in the advanced class, and so we had one-on-one instruction all the time. We spoke it in class, read it, wrote it, and could understand our teacher when he spoke it...slowly. Flash forward two years. I went to France and England as a graduation present from my parents. Many in the group I was with (AIFS) were French students with their teacher. Everywhere our group went in Paris (not so much in the non-urban areas), as soon as we opened our mouths to say anything in French, the clerks or whatever would grimace and signal for someone to come speak English to us, or they'd switch into English themselves. We had no way of knowing what we were doing wrong. My aunt, however, had a wonderful experience in Germany where the elderly vegetable cart man who brought fresh veggies around her neighborhood every few days would teach her a few words of German, and she'd teach him some English. They both learned enough to get by during these conversations with a friendly native speaker. Wish I'd had that. This game sounds interesting, though. We DID have one positive experience in Paris...if you view it from a certain perspective. The French teacher assigned one of her students to go up to a man waiting for the bus and ask him when the bus was expected to arrive. She asked her question, and without pausing, the man said, "Non, non, non!" He then corrected her pronunciation and answered her when she got it right to his satisfaction. She was red as a beet, but...like I said: from a certain perspective, it was positive.

Glenn on A Virtual Game to Teach Children Languages

Thu, 16 Jul 2009 13:43:42 -0500

I certainly have had the described experience of studying languages in school, but being unable to function in those languages in real-world situations. I think the concept of virtual immersion is a wonderful one. I can easily see how it could help with practical reading, and aural comprehension. I can also see how it might help with writing, although much text-based software limits the expected responses too severely. Perhaps this is more advanced in that way. I wonder if they address the problems of speaking and pronunciation and, if yes, how they address these. I greatly benefitted from old-school virtual immersion: I attended Middlebury Summer Language School, where we lived for several weeks in a language commune speaking no English. But cutting-edge virtual language immersion is an exciting prospect.